Comments on: Chinese input methods: A guide for second language learners https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/ A better way of learning Mandarin Thu, 08 Aug 2024 13:16:11 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Olle Linge https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-121893 Thu, 08 Aug 2024 13:16:11 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-121893 In reply to J.

There’s something broken in the theme I’m using and I haven’t been able to fix it, so it’s not your problem! Sorry about that!

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By: J https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-121876 Thu, 08 Aug 2024 04:20:08 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-121876 commenting on the 嘸蝦米 learner above. Any update on this system and if you’re still using it?

*Unfortunate I’m not able to comment in your guy’s comment thread. I’ve noticed this every time I’ve commented. Is this an issue for others? I’m in Safari but when I tried with Chrome it’s the same. Maybe it’s a plugin/extension issue if it’s just me experiencing this.

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By: Dan Strychalski https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-80382 Wed, 04 Aug 2021 07:55:56 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-80382 Everybody in Taiwan learns Zhuyin Fuhao in the first grade, so it’s as natural a choice here as QWERTY for English speakers.

Majoring in Chinese in the U.S. in the early 1970s, I learned Zhuyin in a third-year course that covered miscellany from oracle-bone forms to simplified characters and Hanyu Pinyin. It came in handy when the first good dictionary since Mathews’ came out — the Wade-Giles index had errors but the Zhuyin index was excellent.

The order of the symbols in Zhuyin is based on linguistic principles, and their placement on the keyboard mostly follows that order. If one can touch-type English and knows the Zhuyin symbols, it is a joy to use right from the beginning (well, it WAS until they screwed it up by making it “intelligent”).

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By: Olle Linge https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-75641 Thu, 22 Apr 2021 15:48:30 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-75641 In reply to Cowbay.

Thank you for sharing! This is very interesting indeed, but I do find the mix of similarity with English letters and actual components a bit confusing; maybe it makes more sense when you get into it more. It would be interesting to take a deeper dive into different non-phonetic typing systems, but it almost requires personal experience to say much about them from a learner perspective, which isn’t something I really have time to do. That makes comments like yours even more valuable, so thank you again for sharing!

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By: Cowbay https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-75561 Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:06:58 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-75561 After years of learning Taiwanese Mandarin with Pinyin and Bopomofo, I found myself struggling to remember the rarer characters, as well as actively recalling any characters outside the few most common ones, so I started experimenting with Boshiamy (嘸蝦米), a shape-based IME. I’m not very proficient yet, but I already noticed how it forces me to remember character components, and now I’m having a much easier time actively recalling characters from memory. For some characters, it’s because of being able to remember the character itself more easily, and for the others I am able to remember its code and then reconstruct the character based on the code.

Boshiamy is somewhat similar to Cangjie, but has optional shortcuts rather than having to always type the full sequence. According to some sources on the internet, that allows Boshiamy to have the average combination code length of 2.5 compared to Cangjie’s 4.5, and for that reason consistently wins at speed typing competitions. Cangjie differs a lot between operating systems and versions, while Boshiamy seems fairly consistent from what I’ve seen so far. In Taiwan and Hong Kong, many keyboards come with Cangjie symbols printed on them, but that’s not really needed for Boshiamy and you can use any QWERTY keyboard, as most components are more or less logically assigned to a latin letter.

The main drawback of Boshiamy is that it’s a proprietary product, even though the codes can be found for free and used with ibus. Also, some codes are loosely based on components’ Mandarin or Taiwanese pronunciations, or their meanings in English, which can be confusing/undesirable for some people, but for me is quite interesting. Compared to Cangjie, there are more overlapping codes and more characters that share the same code, but that doesn’t seem difficult to get used to.

Some examples:
哈 (OAO) components look like letters O A O
陪 (BLO) 阝 and 口 look like B and O, 立 is from “li”
掰 (HBDH) 手 means Hand, 八 and 刀 are pronounced “ba” and “dao”
了 (WI) the character looks like W from an angle, I is just a filler representing the last stroke because the code is shorter than three characters
三 (S) numbers 1-10, as well as some other most common characters like 的, have one letter codes

The IME’s logic is not hard to learn, the hardest thing is remembering the letter assignments of all the components as they don’t always make obvious sense. The official website offers a lot of practice material, however it’s all in Chinese, so it might not be very accessible to people who don’t have an advanced command of the language. If you do feel up for a challenge, however, I’d wholeheartedly recommend it.

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By: Olle Linge https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-75282 Fri, 16 Apr 2021 07:18:55 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-75282 In reply to Kristin.

Your comment highlights something I didn’t really go into much in the article, namely that typing on phones is obviously much slower than on computers, especially for some people. I can type at 120 words per minute in English, and while it’s hard to compare, I can easily type Chinese at above 100 characters per minute even with a fairly bad input method. That is clearly not possible when writing by hand (that’s almost two Chinese characters a second).

However, on a phone, this is quite different. I don’t type very fast at all, so the step to handwriting is actually much smaller, and could be, at least in some cases like you say, even be faster! I’ll add a comment to this effect in the article, as I think it’s something I should have mentioned, but didn’t. Thank you!

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By: Kristin https://www.hackingchinese.com/chinese-input-methods-a-guide-for-second-language-learners/#comment-75237 Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:45:53 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=14533#comment-75237 I use handwriting almost exclusively, as I actually find it faster than pinyin and more helpful for learning as I speak a lot more than I write, so I need more review of writing than pinyin. I use pinyin in specific situations – on the occasion I’m using my computer rather than my phone, or when I only have one hand free (more common in the last 6 weeks since I had a baby), or, very occasionally, when I just can’t get the character I want with handwriting. I find pinyin actually takes longer as I have to look for the right character and make sure the one that comes up is the one I want. Maybe it’s a matter of practice, and since I use handwriting a lot more I’m better at that. My husband is one of those rare natives under 60 (he’s 31) who also prefers handwriting. He is somewhat of a purist though. He’s been teaching our 5-year-old (who speaks Mandarin by choice despite living in an English speaking country with only one native Chinese parent) to write characters but hasn’t mentioned pinyin yet (this probably makes more sense with a child than with an adult learning a second language, and I suppose pinyin will come up eventually).

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