Comments on: Why your Chinese isn’t as good as you think it ought to be https://www.hackingchinese.com/why-your-chinese-isnt-as-good-as-you-think-it-ought-to-be/ A better way of learning Mandarin Mon, 23 May 2022 09:07:36 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Christopher Coulouris https://www.hackingchinese.com/why-your-chinese-isnt-as-good-as-you-think-it-ought-to-be/#comment-87381 Thu, 11 Nov 2021 02:18:30 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=15157#comment-87381 Hi Olle,
Thanks for your thoughtful and thorough reply to my comment. You are right in saying that no one can attain the level of an educated native speaker in just 5 years. When interviewer on the phone told me that I should reply like a highly articulate educated native speaker I knew it was a long shot. It is quite an achievement for an adult learner of Chinese to attain that level. I also agree with you about the way second languages are taught in many countries. Here in the States second language teaching is like you said a subject to be studied but not for real use. Best wishes.

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By: Olle Linge https://www.hackingchinese.com/why-your-chinese-isnt-as-good-as-you-think-it-ought-to-be/#comment-87255 Wed, 10 Nov 2021 10:03:35 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=15157#comment-87255 In reply to Christopher Coulouris.

I’m sorry to hear about that, but I think this is probably a mix of what I talk about in this article and unrealistic expectations. I really think it’s impossible to reach the level of an educated native speaker in five years, it doesn’t really matter how much time you spend or how talented you are, the amount of especially reading you need to do to reach that level is so vast that I think few adult foreigners have ever done it. I certainly haven’t. I wrote an article some time ago about how to figure how good one’s Chinese is (here), where I talked about this and also wrote some thoughts about my own learning.

Then there are oddities in tests like these, too. I had to take a test for native speakers to show that my pronunciation was good enough, but the test actually doesn’t really test pronunciation, it’s more about knowing difficult words and how they are pronounced. They give you a list of characters, words and sentences and ask you to read them. That’s okay as a check for basic pronunciation, but the problem is that the words are really rare (as in many characters being outside of the 5,000 most common ones). I was a bit lucky because I had spent lots of time in Skritter going through around 5,800 characters and actually knew those I got, but it’s a really unfair way of checking pronunciation. Maybe your test contained similar things, too.

Anyway, while I don’t think it’s realistic to reach C2 or educated native level in five years, I can understand that you’re not very happy with 2+ and 3 for grades if 5 is the maximum. On the other hand, I’m not terribly surprised. I’ve studied both undergraduate and post-graduate courses in linguistics and related subjects in Chinese and while this is really good for listening and reading in these specific areas, it doesn’t really improve your overall level that much unless you also do lots of other studying on the side. When you get to a level where you can do these things, teachers don’t care about your language skills that much and the responsibility for learning is entirely on the student. This problem is not limited to Chinese courses or East Asia either; there are many countries where you can study a language for a decade without being able to actually use it.

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By: Christopher Coulouris https://www.hackingchinese.com/why-your-chinese-isnt-as-good-as-you-think-it-ought-to-be/#comment-87170 Tue, 09 Nov 2021 17:50:42 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=15157#comment-87170 Hi Olle,
I am very glad that you wrote this article. It is relevant to my recent experience of applying for a government Chinese teaching job. I studied Chinese for 5 years at a Chinese university. The teaching methods frustrated me. Rather than engaging in learning Chinese I spent time complaining and letting my frustration get the best of me. Over the last year I applied for a government Chinese teaching job. An outside agency tested me. 5 being a native speaker I got a 3 in listening 2+ in reading and speaking. I fell short of the required 4 in all areas. Some months later I did a phone interview for the same job and I flopped. The criteria was that I answered the given questions as a highly articulate educated native speaker would. Maybe I was nervous but my answers were convoluted to say the least. After not getting the job and performing poorly I have been pondering my Chinese level and where I ought to be. Thank you for this article.

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By: Olle Linge https://www.hackingchinese.com/why-your-chinese-isnt-as-good-as-you-think-it-ought-to-be/#comment-85359 Wed, 27 Oct 2021 08:55:23 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=15157#comment-85359 In reply to Kai.

Not really! This is not about being good or bad, it’s about your level in relation to what you think it ought to be, regardless if your a beginner or very advanced. 🙂

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By: Kai https://www.hackingchinese.com/why-your-chinese-isnt-as-good-as-you-think-it-ought-to-be/#comment-85268 Tue, 26 Oct 2021 17:47:09 +0000 https://www.hackingchinese.com/?p=15157#comment-85268 Don’t worry, I don’t think my Chinese is good so…kudos for me?

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